First Community Information Meeting for Area Ratepayers

M I N U T E S

Date:Sat. January 17, 2009

Time:  10:00 a.m.

Location:  Norduff Room, North Dufferin Community Centre, Honeywood

Opening   Ron Monro from East Garafraxa welcomed the large crowd.  He announced that he was the moderator for the two hour meeting and that the acting secretary for today is Diane Cowen.  As well he declared to have no financial interests in the area.

MOTION:  Carl Cosack motioned to accept Ron Munro as moderator for the meeting.  Seconded by Gary Matthews.  Carried.

MOTION:  Roger Short moved that we would conduct the order by agreeing to agree or to disagree in an orderly manner and that the moderator is allowed to make any procedural decisions.  Seconded by Bill French.  Carried.

AGENDA:  Ron Munro indicated that there was some indication that Graham Flint was to attend the meeting today; however Gary will not be in attendance at this meeting.  Lyle Parsons and Gary Hunter each will make 15 minute presentations, followed by a brief clarification period.  An open period to state comments or pose questions, which answers may not be available today will be held after the two presenters.

Lyle Parson’s Presentation:  Lyle Parsons stated that he did not represent his company and he was there due to personal interest.  Lyle presented “Property Issues in the Township of Melancthon & Mulmur” in June 2008.    Presentation attached.  This presentation was presented to Melancthon Council in June.  Comments from the public following Lyle’s presentation are below:

Karen Wallace, R.R. 6, Shelburne – Since the presentation to the Council and impact discussion on the Environmental Assessment Act, has Council taken any action since that time?  Lyle Parson’s Response:  No, I am not aware if Council has taken any action.

David Hahn, Mulmur – There is lots of rumours and hear say.  What are we doing to contact Mr. Loundes to ask him these questions and to obtain answers?  Lyle Parson’s Response:  Don’t know.  Council has his list of concerns.

Michael Daniher – He is representing Mr. Lowndes who could not be here today.   He would like guidance from the Moderator as to when he might be able to address questions and address points raised.  Would it be possible to have some time following Gary’s presentation?

MOTION:  Michael Monaghan, Mulmur moved to allow Michael Daniher time following Gary’s presentation.  Seconded by Debbie Gee, Melancthon.  Carried.  2 or 3 people opposed.

Michael Daniher, stated that his intentions are to be non intrusive and he would only be able to respond within the scope of his knowledge.

Gary Hunter’s Presentation:  Gary stated his extensive background and experience within aggregate and quarry searches.  Gary read and remarked on the Orangeville Rail Press Release reported in a document from Markdale.   Gary suggested Michael Daniher might wish to comment on the Press Release when he speaks.

Gary continued with reviewing the Melancthon-Mulmur township map, outlining area acquired by Lowndes, (clarifying that Jim Montgomery’s property should be deleted and that Lorne Dynes property below Orvis’ is not shown on this search), drilling points, streams/water, and rail line. 

Gary indicated that Strata have made applications for two more properties to the south.  He does not know if the applications have been completed. 

Gary described the different types of wells and differences. 

A point made was that the County has not issued any Forest Clearing permits.

Gary stated that he has a pecuniary interest, but it is not from the group being formed here today.  He has been retained by a  private individual and is engaged with a prominent environmental lawyer on the process that we may take.  Gary stated his family still owns two acres on the 3rd Line of Melancthon.

Michael Daniher’s Comments:  Moderator granted Michael 5 minutes.  Following Michael’s comments, there would be an open forum to make points, suggestions and to outline next steps for the community.

Michael, thanked the forum for time to speak and re-stated he did not wish to intrude.  He extended John Lowndes regrets that he could not attend. John was in Northern Ontario and could not attend even if he was invited.  

Michael stated the corporate structure.  David Lowndes is his brother and runs the Flamborough operation.  David is not involved in the Melancthon Companies.  John grew up outside Orangeville.  He is a business man, professional engineer, interested in cattle, manufacturing, aggregate and real estate, etc.  For public record,  Highland Companies was established by John by putting together a number of private investors. He stated John is committed to farming and has invested millions – being the largest employer, largest land owner.

One year ago the exploration of ground water commenced for irrigation due to the previous drought the summer prior.  Michael stated that they feel that they have gone beyond what is required to communicate with parties when it is not required by law.  

He indicated that the move to acquire the rail line up to Owen Sound was announced last April. This will provide environmental friendly transportation.

He indicated that their plans are on public record.  They want to be fair and reasonable with the community, listen and learn from feedback and communicate with their managers and 70 employees. 

He has attended Melancthon Township meetings since September 2008. 

Michael said no applications have been made.  They will comply with every activity.  It is their intent to act in an economic, social and environmental manner and to contribute to the community. 

He thanked the moderator for the time and indicated that they are not trying to deceive the community and they will try to better communicate.

Moderator :  He stated that there may not be answers available within the room today.  Where does the community need to go from the meeting today?

Lyle Parsons Reply to Mr. Lowndes.  Communications are poor. 

Roger Short, Kimberly:    why not lay out the road map as to the plans being considered and share with Council?

Karen Wallace:  Mr. Loundes can pay for Mr. Daniher to be at Council for the last 6 months.  I cannot take time off work to be at Council.  Council only provides the agenda and does not provide the supporting documentation for items to be discussed in advance of the meeting to the public.  Karen conducted a survey of surrounding municipalities and of 43 responses only 2 – Melancthon and Mulmur do not provide supporting documentation prior to the meeting.  Which if we had, people could, if they wanted,  take time of work to attend Council.

Bev Kumphrey, Melancthon Councillor:    She stated she never received one phone call about what we are here today about.  She requested individuals to call with their comments/concerns.

Euru  form Mono:   Here to learn what is going on and what is going to take place.

John Franklyn:    The lifestyle is going to change for the benefit of a very few.  Openness builds trust.

Debbie Fawcett, Mayor of Melancthon:   Karen Wallace’s comments will be taken into consideration.  Debbie has brought 10 copies for distribution of the letter provided to Council by The Highland Companies dated September 9, 2008 plus a letter from Council stating no application has been made and the procedures for making an application.   (Copies attached).  Debbie indicated that information could be available on the website.

Bruce Parrinder    After Michael’s comments we still have no idea of Mr. Lowndes’ intentions.  Need to have more transparency. 

Dave Pitcher    I have noticed a change in well water quality in last 6 months.   Moderator – asked for show of hands with same issue in same area.  Four people showed hands.

Michael Daniher   We are aware of the situation and we are discussing.    Mr. Pitcher responded that the issue is being addressed now.

Angela Jara, Melancthon:  She has a letter from John Lowndes indicating that her land will be devalued through windmills.  He has no interest in her property until it is devalued.   Letter will be made public.  Letter was not shown at meeting.

Michael Daniher:  Point taken.  Will act on it.

Carolyn Coe, Mulmur:  Why do applications not go out to neighbours for the clearing of a forest?

Theresa Fielder 

Bill French:    Mr. Hunter, why are wells only 80 feet?  Is this a sign of aggregate or water?

Gary Hunter:  Ministry has a record of all wells pumped.  Most wells around here are 30-85 feet.  There is a porous area – may not be deep in the deposits.  If it is for a quarry he described what dewatering would be required for the top two lifts.

Bill Hill, Melancthon Deputy Reeve:    Helpful to Council if they know who to communicate with on the Organizing Committee.

Moderator:    Group is loosely organized.  Need to establish action.

Marg McCarthy:    The recreational value of the area has increased over the last 10 years.  This could be lost due to the potential land changes.

Mary Roberts, Melancthon:    Suggest collection of email addresses in order to communicate information.

Darren Ferris, Mulmur:  Michael has an archeological firm been retained?

Michael Daniher:    He doesn’t profess to know everything.    Michael is not an officer of the company, he provides planning.  He described himself as a consultant.

Karen Wallace – Both the Min. of Natural Resources and Min. of Housing  & Rural Affairs knows Mr. Lowndes’ name and are expecting a large application from him.  He has asked for a meeting.

Leona Prentice, Honeywood:  told in the 80’s the area was designated as an aggregate area.  How come and is it true?

Gary Hunter:  Melancthon Official Plan shows it mainly south of 15 sideroad.  If Quarry, there will have to be an amendment to the official Plan.

Mike Harrison:    Further to Leona Prentice, why is there aggregate on the Centre Road?  Can you explain?

Cam McLean:    Can you leave overburden and go underneath?

Gary Hunter:    The overburden would have to be removed to get the rock below.

Gord Montgomery, Mayor of Mulmur:    No communication, no expression, no application and no information to share.

Jim Pearson, Honeywood:  Vision down road very heavy industry, smoke stacks, transportation of cement to Owen Sound.

Gary Hunter:  Michael based on my information from the Min. of the Environment, will the Hydrogeology report (summer-fall 2008) be available in the next 1-2 months?  Will the reports be made available?  Will there be independent advice to those that have provided well concerns?

Moderator:  Do you think a committee should be established?  A show of hands indicated a majority.  No one opposed.

Moderator indicated we would not discuss the structure of the Committee nor who would run the Committee.

Motion:  Bill French moved a committee be formed with an odd number (9) for voting purposes and the Committee would establish their own Executive.  Carl Cosack seconded the motion.  Carried.

NominatorAccept/Decline Decision

Louise Philips nominated Karen WallaceKaren Declined.

Jim Black nominated Dale Rutledge Dale not here. Scott Rutledge, Dale’s son accepted on father’s behalf.

Norm MacEacherin nominated Rob GreenRob accepted.

Marg McCarthy nominated Bill FrenchBill declined.

?  nominated Lyle ParsonsLyle declined.

John Kidd nominated David VanderZaagDave accepted.

Heather Black nominated Jim BlackJim accepted.

Joan Lever nominated John LeverJohn accepted.

Dennis Sanford nominated Ralph ArmstrongRalph accepted.

Bonnie Ferrier nominated Rick WallaceRick accepted

Carolyn Coe nominated Carl CosackCarl accepted

Bob Seldon nominated Norm WolfsonNorm accepted

John Hunter nominated Bill HillBill declined

Terry Prentice nominated Ginny MacEacherinGinny accepted

Pauline Lloyd nominated Kathy KamstraKathy accepted

During the nomination process the moderator suggested a committee of 11 and the crowd agreed.  Jim Black suggested more on the Committee. The moderator suggested that sometimes too many can be too much.   He indicated individuals interested in assisting the Committee, should contact one of the committee members. 

MOTION:    Bill French motioned to close nominations.  Garry Matthews seconded. 

Carried. 

Meeting adjourned at noon. 

Following the meeting Bill Hill, Deputy Mayor,  Melancthon, provided the Moderator

with a DVD called “Highland Companies Melancthon Community”.  This will be passed along to the Committee.

Respectfully submitted by Acting Secretary:  Diane Cowen

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